The Veiled Chameleon: November 2004: My McDonald's Experience

You know, just picturing paying $.54 for a bun, pickles, lettuce, tomato and cheese makes me shake my head in wonder. Veggie burger, indeed.

jeez thats just wrong

one time i had a burger from burger king and it had cum on it... "SPERM" sick man

You don't have to play in to this racial typing predilection by categorizing this speech as a 'black accent'. How do you know what percentage engage in it. Whatever the 'it' is. What about the thick white accents with all the slang associated with it. Fact is you are as prejudiced as they come. I just hope you are not in any position of power.

"How do you know what percentage engage in it. [sic]"

That's classified; i.e., I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Thanks for playing.

I JUST WANTED TO COMMENT ON THAT ARTICLE. IM A HIPANI FEMALE IN FLORIDA AND I ACTUALLY HAVE FAMILY WHO ARE BLACK. THE ONLY THING I CAN COMMENT IS THAT WE ARE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (THE MELTING POT) AND EVERYONE HERE IS DIFFERENT. THATS JUST PART OF IT ...I ACCEPT EVERYONE'S SPEECH,LANGUAGE,COLOR ETC....WETHER POOR OR RICH WHY WORRY ABOUT HOW THEY TALK,WALK OR DREAM. WE ARE ALL PEOPLE AND IF WE WERE ALL THE SAME IT WOULDBE NO FUN.

you're just ignorant... and what about white trash redneck accents...just as bad if not worse.

Yes, yes they are just as bad in many cases.

Leprechan

Who said British English was correct English (not implying that ebonics is though)...the status quo is not the norm it's a social contruct for certain people to sit high up on their rockers which you seem to be happily upholding. The youth of America and the media will remind you in a quick second that America does not abide to British English...As far as accents...have youu ever heard a country song without a country accent? And they (white country folk) do their share of inventing words as well...do you know what a "shilla-grilla", "hairy-leg", or "pocket-puller" is? Didn't think so...I'm not even going to attempt to correct the paragraph about "black-trash" culture glorfying ebonics since it's obviously (speaking from the perspective of an Ivy League Degree with a double major in African-American Studies and Political Science and a lifetime of experience of being "black") written out of ignorance and biased assumptions... The lady with the kid with the speech impediment...that was a dumb questions to ask about black kids. Second, isn't it ironic that for your white son it's the teachers who are supposed to be correcting him, yet for the black classmates blame is cast upon them and their "refusal to correct their [speech]". Who's the student and who's the teacher...so who's supposed to be correcting who? Back to "Jeff" I would say go read a few books about the damage white people have done from the day this country started to yesterday, the racism that still exists, and the way cycles are still perpetuated, yet, as un-professional as this may seem, I'd rather throw them at the back of your "Jim Jeffries Social Darwinist" quack of head and keep walking. You seem to be lost beyond measure...I wish the rest of ignorant America was as bold as you so I could chuckle and know not to waste my time even looking at you...It's funny how you and many others complain about the underdog needing to get up...yet if that same gentleman were to go get an Ivy League Education, a Masters, or PHD and become your boss you'd probably have some psychological issues LoL I've seen it happen and it's quite the phenomenon. Smart black people in power!! What?! Our day will come :)

@Enlightenment: You've made some very unwarranted assumptions about what it is that I actually think, "Enlightenment". You should read more carefully.

Smart black people in power? What, people with black skin? Sure: in fact, on some message boards my avatar is a Condoleeza Rice for President animated gif. Skin color is irrelevant.

Which brings us to the second point: I am no more "white" because of the color of my skin than I am "blue" because of the color of my eyes, nor I am "ten" because of the number of my fingers. Racism is precisely the association of a person's chosen thoughts, behaviors, ideas, and culture with their unchosen biological characteristics, primary among them, skin color. In the school, mentioned above, that is precisely what is happening, and kids born with black skin are getting a raw deal from their teachers (ultimately, the raw deal comes from those who promote the legislation that forces the teachers to teach that way).

You've hallucinated a bunch of crap, "Enlightenment", and projected it upon me. That is, you've PRE-JUDGED me. [sarcasm]Congratulations. [/sarcasm]

I can understand where people can get the notion here that this article was racist by focusing on the words used and not the overall picture. Yes, there are a lot of condescending tones and words here, but there is also a message that a lot of people don't appreciate, although they notice it every day.

The point isn't about race, it's about those who rather then seek to correct these things that they don't do well, glorify them. How much slang you use doesn't bother me in the least, especially when you're hanging out with your friends, but when you go to work no matter your position you should communicate effectively and damn anyone who calls themself a teacher and then decides that this child or that shouldn't be taught how to properly communicate for any reason.

Someone also made reference to America being the cultural melting pot, there is nothing wrong with that. Correcting your speech doesn't change your diversity, my spelling correctly or speaking well doesn't change the fact that I'm a much different person with a different culture then let's say, Colin Powell, but we both use the common language to communicate effectively.

I agree that it can be hard to understand that accent, but I'm more annoyed at the suburban kids who try hard to be something they're not and put it on for "street cred."

I agree that it may limit some people's ability to move ahead in life if other people don't know what they just said. But then again, I mumble (think David Duchovny, only worse). It's easy to say that someone might be better off with different speech habits, but quite a bit harder to change in practice.

I liked an idea one of my friends had, which was to have a day where people had to take on the burdens, complaints or worries of another group unrelated to their own. Not that it's actually easy to do this, but it might build more tolerance for other people. It's often not such an easy solution when you're inside a situation as it seems to be looking in from the outside.

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I understand your frustration at your food situation but that's a result of ignorance, not indolence. It seems you have something against "ebonics" but if you and the boy at McDonald's would read a linguistics book, you would both learn that there is a difference between not knowing English and incorporating English into one's hereditary linguistic structure. The laws of English are not natural to people of African descent and if not constantly bombarded with "English" (the American version, at least), there is no way to expect them to conform to the language. Yes, most Blacks' families have been in America for 4 centuries but language is both lasting and dynamic. Not to mention the fact that most Blacks are exposed to a pre-market discrimination that allows them little to no chance to make the "progress" that you want them to make.

The "laws of English" are not *natural*, period. For anyone. There's a word to describe the view that people of certain skin colors have different abilities to handle English; that word is: racism.

We're not talking about people from other countries, here, taking on English as a second lanaguage. We're talking about people who are just like every other natural born American, no difference, at all, period. And like every other American, a choice is made. It is that choice I am criticizing.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jeff. I think if you live in America, you should speak good English in public, especially if you work with people. I don't think you are racist Jeff, and I think everyone should make a conscious decision to speak better at whatever language they speak, in whatever country!

Um, dude. You go to a restaurant. You order an item that is not on the menu. The kid doesn't know what you're talking about because it's _not on the menu_. Vegetarian people go to McDonald's and quite often order a burger with no meat. It's not unheard of. This is what the kid was told you were asking for, and this is what you paid for. Why are you surprised here?

You've missed the point. And, no, I won't answer, "So what is the point?" It's too obvious.

Even without school, young african-americans can learn to speak effectively....it's called cable television...just avoid the music channels so you don't sound like a spoiled promiscuous yuppy brat from orange county or a crack dealer concerned about the degrees of lean in his caddy lololol.

You're not racist. Black people speak differently than their white counterparts in many instances, and most of the time it can not be contributed to geographic region or other differences. White people are called "racists" sometimes even when they're just pointing out differences and not being hateful. As for me, I'll stick to poker. Race cards isn't my game.

I too am frustrated with the embracement of this type of speech by not only those who speak it but also the teachers who ignore this. I think it starts with the parents; I mean they are the ones who teach you to speak. Teachers could pick up the slack and go about correcting this speech in a non-offensive manner, and I'm sure many many do. Rap music certainly doesn't help things in this case, and I'm certainly not talking about all rap music, just trash... like well any southern rap from "artists" coming from Texas or LA. There is alot of respectable rap music, and I'd rather call it hip-hip. I'm a 21 year old white Engineering student currently living in TX, and I love hip-hop, but I can't stand rap. Anyway I think rap music gives young blacks an "artform" or culture that they can embrace and emulate.

As for stupid people, well over the past year I worked at a large retailer, and there wasn't a soul there that could carry on an intelligent conversation, white or black. In fact I think I quit because I just couldn't deal with all the morons, though I cited my reason being school. What I noticed from working there is that the black men would change the way they would speak to me , a white man, but the black women didn't give a $h!t and had the most horrific "black" speech one can imagine. These are black women with kids whom I'm guessing may grow up to serve another Jeff a nice veggie burger. Anyway Jeff I feel your pain, but it's probably much worse in the south, if that's any consolation.

This is what happens when individuals refuse to assimilate into a Western Culture. We are a melting pot because everyone loses their identity in order to be welcomed into the white western establishment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I would pick America over Africa any day of the week (I lived there). As an African American male I realize that in order for me to be successful in America I must assimilate into white western culture. I believe Jeff is correct in his assessment of the current situation.

@Mark: What is so important about associating a culture with a color? Why not say "western culture"? Why *white* western culture?

Color is incidental and irrelevant, particularly and especially in America.

One day, if the "liberals" (American contemporary definition) ever get defeated and evolved out of the system, skin color will be considered as meaningless and irrelevant as height, hair and eye color.

HAHA I happened upon this site by accident. This had to be one of the funnier things I have seen in a while. Jeff I so agree about the black accent. The comments of the "white trash/redneck accent" killed me. Do those people realize that it is normally an accent determined on where you live? Southern being the majority of what these people are talking about. Country/southern all the same. Blacks can have southern accents too. There is just no excuse for speaking like a complete retard. As for being brought up in a specific area or taught in a bad public school, well you are looking at a white girl who went to one of the worst public schools in my area. All I heard was the ignorant ramblings of black kids and the way they speak. I didnt speak this way nor do I have that ghetto accent. It is a choice to sound like a retard. If you are brought up properly and choose something better for your life and choose education...you should have no problem.

Whoever wrote this article should be shot, if you went to Jamaica and you worked at a drive thru and someone wrote an article about your "white trash" accent and how you should talk more "black" you would probably be hurt and surprised because English is what you have grown up around. You should be ashamed at what you have written here maybe the dude just moved to your stupid country and maybe he was getting lessons did you ever think of that? You Americans don’t all speak the perfect English, half of your country has stupid accents and do you call them "trash"? No you probably don’t because they are white just like you. If I ever met you I would laugh at you for being so senseless like that lady on the comment page said if we were all the same the world would be no fun or in other words no one wants to be like the Americans, like you. And most of us "white" people are just plain ignorant we don’t know what it is like to be black all we know is what we see on TV and what we here in songs and what people tell us but there’s soo much more than that so stop being so stupid you dumb f***.

Very poor analysis, Shani. Read again and try harder. You didn't understand a thing.

I hope you got a headache from those fries.

I understood that whoever wrote this was a racial idiot and should be hung.

*racist*

Then you understood nothing.

Either that, or you understood it all, but you're a racist yourself.

This guy makes an educated point. The people that choose to bash him are just playing into political correctness. One cannot say anything negative about the black race or culture in America anymore. I wasn't born untill the late 70's, and was never taught too be a racist. I know and all of you know that the problems with race relations in America today have nothing to do with skin color. It is all in the rap, baby-daddy, ebonic,welfare,foodstamp,medicaid,refusal to better ones self. I am personally fed up with black culture by living in a majority black city. Yes, I am in a position of power, and will be moving within the next year. You people can call be a racisit, I'll wear it proudly. I know I'm not and could care less what the average modern day American PC idiot thinks.

yeah man you rule!! no more yo yo and ya and all that stuff I hate it

Ur a fukin' fagget. wha

Ok. Really?

Why go to school if you are going to end up speaking poor English? I am tired of the excuses & people playing the race card. Your educational, not schooling, level is reflected by your command of the English Language. I'm not talking about those born elsewhere with accents. I am talking about people born & educated here. Grunge & trashy habits are glorified. Our standards have been lowered to accomodate the lesser advantaged. You don't raise the standards of others by lowering your own.

Very, very good, Diane.

I think i should voice my thoughts here...
I live in a smallish city in Australia, where most people are freindly to eachother. I recently became aware that aboriginals in the community who attended the same school as me were given free bus rides home. I originnally thought that this was unfair, but one day i walked home with an aboriginal friend of mine. On the twenty minute walk, we passed 2 people who glared at him, or averted their eyes. Another 3 actually stopped what they were doing to hurl insults at him from across the street. One going as fas as to stand in the middle of the road and tell him that his kind were ruining our country, that we were fine until he came along. (In case you dont know, aboriginals lived on australia before we came along and forced them into slave labour for sugar cane purposes.
Whats more, this reminded me that we DID force them to do the dirty work all those years ago. I believe that if you can see what they have to put up with, even in a freindly town like ours, than you can see how they may be forced into being as we see them to be.

On a related note, I can easily say that racism must be MUCH worse in the USA. But, and i'm only guessing, think that only about 25%, if not less of your black population follows the stereo types. We somehow manage to overlook the peace making heroes, doctors and generally nice people in favour of the murderers, rapists and gangsters. But of course we do, black rappers are often seen by millions of people worldwide. Murderers and rapists are shown on news programs as we follow their arrests, only leading to more discrimination. Because of this, no one wants to know about the scientists and good-doers.

In summary, black people are not black at all, we are all the same. They appear different to us, and we decided they must be, some followed that and made themselves it. We viewed them and applied it to all. Because we see them as different, we prefer to see THEM as murderers, so we know that we could never do that... I could emphasize this more, but this is already far too long.

"...before we came along..."

I suspect that you didn't "come along" at all in the manner which you suggest, but instead you're referring to your ancestors or - even more ridiculously - white skinned people. Those are unwarranted and illegitimate associations. You have nothing more to do with them than your aboriginal friend. You are not born with some "original sin" burden given to you by people of the past. You might as well argue for astrology as to argue for that.

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. -Wipes a single tear from his eye.- That's so wrong.

i've lived in both predominantly white apartment complex's and predominantly black complex's as well as in predominantly hispanic or latino complex's ..out of the 13 complex's i've lived in since 1980,i choose the predonimantly white. i'm not saying this from racism.i'm not a racist.there's just something different about the black culture.even the latinos have a different culture than the white.finally in 2003 i found an apartment complex wherein residents aren't hanging out by their cars at all hours of the night listening to their krap and hip hop music.'nor are they grouping out by their tailgates in groups of two,three or more while guzzling their beer late hours of the night.

the apartment complex remains at a level of 10 to 15% minority at all times and never goes above the 15% ...the only real problems they've had since i've lived here are the residents that move in from time to time and decide they want to have loud parties all hours or yank up the rap music to an earpiercing volume.this is exactly why percentage of minorities here never gets any higher than 15%..they move out nearly as fast as they move in most of the time(ie,they move as soon as the 6 month or years lease is up).because they can't party hearty.i've even heard blacks claim that they're moving because they feel like their in prison living here where they can't hang in the parking lot and can't 'hang' in their cars and blast their music just anytime they want and aren't allowed to loiter on the property after 10pm.(there's a 10pm to 8am 'quiet time'here in the complex that the management heavily enforces..no loud music,no loitering outside on the property..not even sitting on your steps or hanging in your car).and to anyone that claims that there's no such thing as a black culture..don't be stupid,anybody reading this post knows exactly what i'm talking about,but it's just not acceptable these days to point those things out.if a person does point them out pubically that person is labled as a racist or ignorant or some other adjective simply for the fact that the truth is okay to point out unless it offends someone,more especially if that someone is anything but caucasian. if i ever move..i guarantee ya i'll search for another area that's predominantly 'white'.

Wow, dude. You have one sad world perspective.

I'd add rational arguments to the above, but clearly rational arguments don't persuade you.

It must be hard to be that ignorant.

You are a racist. It is pretty obvious through your justifying back stepping after each predjudice remark. Next time just ask for the biggot burger and a side of ignorance.

^---It'd be a bit more clear if you actually named who you're referring to - lots of people have posted here.

It can't be me, though. My positions are rock solid. I wouldn't back up a millimeter.

This isn't even a thread about racism. But if it were, I'd include this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q8LxO4wnCQ

I don't even consider that to be funny. I don't think I laughed once during the video. I consider it poignant social commentary. It's funny to those who have (people who Chris Rock refers to as) "niggers" as part of their reference group (the audience laughs almost hysterically); I don't (thank goodness).

Only in America can black people and white people live side by side and yet have TOTALLY different accents. Not in England where I grew up or in Canada where I live now. Black Americans FAKE their stupid way of talking.
And before you go off on me I'm black too.

you got what you deserved at the mcdonald's, jeff, and worse. am i to believe that if you were to visit london you would fake a british accent to be accepted by the locals? bullshit. you are who you are.

i've dealt with plenty of asshole service industry people who speak perfectly well. i'd take a down-to-earth non-standard english speaker over a cold, shrill worker who got As in grammar class!

and who goes to a place like mcdonald's with expectations of anything remotely resembling food?

Its funny you all bash this guy for his observations. I work in a municipality that is 89% black. LEt me tell you the black culture is one f'ed up culture. I see people sit in front of my store and casually roll down their windows and just throw their trash out. I see kids at ALL times of the day and week who should be in school. Fights etc...I haven't a hired a black person because I haven't yet interviewed a black person for an open position who spoke on the level I require to support the image I want.

I grew up in a small town that was homogenous and white. I could not understand why people would make disparaging remarks about the black race--until I went to college. My wife who has not a negative bone in her body about others looked at me and imitated one of the disproportionately stupid questions we get that originate from a black caller and said let's get the heck out of here. This is no way to live life and we don't want our small children to think this culture is an acceptable alternative to what we have taught them.

The social situation that african-americans are in today and 'black trash' culture has come about through many generations of discrimination and exclusion from mainstream american society. I think that the exaggerated confidence you find in hip-hop culture or the self-glorification, as you say, is an over-compensation for feelings of inferiority (the extreme displays of confidence are probably proportional to the extremerly low self-esteem) . There is a deep-seated inferiority complex (after being repeatedly told and treated like they were inferior), feelings of exclusion and a high level of social deprivation in black america and this 'black trash' culture is one of the products. There's a big difference between this and foreign immigrants who are trying to learn the language and get by.

Go to Africa and you'll see diffferent black cultures.

Please don't say black trash as nobody is trash- everybody is valuable. I think that part of the solution for young black people is to develop genuine self-love and acceptance to heal feelings of low self-worth and then there needs to be emphasis on education, support from the government and the rest of siociety, changes in the prison system and many other things.

Anger is never a solution as it only causes anger in return and deepens divisions. Love is the way forward; it heals and unifies. And we are all the same at heart. Our minds have no colour-we can and should love one another.

The whole McDonald's story was just a segue for you to get off your chest an observation that pisses you off. Why would you take a black guy working at McDonald's for 6 bucks an hour as an example for the whole race? Is this really an accurate survey? I'm willing to bet he had at least one white co-worker who was ten times more ignorant and unintelligible than the subject of your irritation (I have worked at McDonald's during high school, and believe me, they do not put the dumbest guy at the window. Dumbasses get stuck on fries)

But, I digress; the real point of my response is to let you know that you are, indeed a racist. Actually you are one of the worst kind. I would rather deal with a confederate flag waving, nigger hating redneck than a fake liberal who smiles in your face and goes home to type Go back to Africa, N-word! on his PC.

I work for one of the Big 3, and I have sat in meetings where I could not understand 80% of the people in attendance. Now, if I was a condescending racist like yourself, I would assume that 50% of the members of each of their races embrace an ignorant counter-culture and if only I could paint their skin white I could "fix" them. Please!

The truth is, anti-intellectualism has existed in this country for hundreds of years. In EVERY race there is a sub-culture that basically says smart people are nerds, dummies are cool. That is the only thing going on here. It is your racism that prevents you from seeing the big picture. These suburban kids that emulate so-called "Black accents" are doing the same thing that their generation before them did with disco, and the generation before them with rock n roll. Along with the black kids, the asian kids, the latino kids.

What I challenge you to focus on is why this incident immediately brought up race in your mind. You could have easily opened up a dialogue about McDonald's shabby service, or the fact that natural born Americans are butchering the English language worse than ever. For some reason, you decided to focus on this young man's skin color - which, in my opinion, had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident.

And before you put on your condescending tone and inform me that I need to "Read again and try harder" - don't.

^---"Why would you take a black guy working at McDonald's for 6 bucks an hour as an example for the whole race?"

Why would you suggest that I did? READ AGAIN AND TRY HARDER. I mean *really*. What you've accused me of is in 180_deg polar opposition to what I've said above.

It seems to me that you've brought to the table your own prejudice and are seeing my post through your own biased lens.

There is definitely something wrong with being a racist (judging mental and character traits according to biological race [as if such a thing really even exists]). There is nothing at all wrong with judging character traits, cultural attributes, and mental abilities. That's what I've judged here: specifically, a (sub)-cultural trait.

I have to say, Jeff, your comments didn't make me upset. I didn't think you were prejudiced for what you said, but you are speaking from the out side.Though, I didn't appreciate people from my race being considered trash in some aspects, I agree. I know the struggle that we sometimes face, but it makes me want to do better. I want better for my sons. They are not allowed to speak or dress the way most rappers speak on tv or on records. I am not ashamed of these people. They choose to live the way they do. They have enough money to do what they want to do. However, my sons are going to get an education and work in white collar America, and I know that this way of speaking will present a bigger and additional challenge for them.

If we know that our struggle is hard, then why make it harder. Oh, and for the prejudiced idiot that spoke about welfare, please read real statistics about its demography. In fact, it was created for supplemental assistance for households where the husband was away in war and the wife was home struggling to get by.
U.S. Welfare: 1845-1900,
Industrial Revolution Period for U.S., please by show of hands can anyone tell me who were the soldiers of this war. I'll give you a minute.

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I didn't say anything about any RACE of people.
My post was about a subculture. There is a large
number of people who want to protect that
subculture (read the boxed comments at the very
bottom of my post [prior to the responses]). My
argument is against all those who want to protect
and maintain this subculture. And, incidentally,
my hallucination is that most of those people are
white skinned "intellectual liberals", as opposed
to those who are enmeshed within that culture
themselves. Most of the rest of those who want to
protect that culture are political opportunists
(Jessee Jackson, et. al.) who capitalize on
other's misfortunes (and who need people to be
unfortunate in order to continue capitalizing on
them).

One very stark difference between "black trash" and "white trash" culture, is that everyone
recognizes "white trash" culture to be bad.
However, no one can criticize "black trash"
culture without having the "racist" epithet
hurled at them (witness the above comments in this thread, for example).

Actually, Chris Rock can get away with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utnK4o-jvzk
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I don't think YOU get it. There are many of us that share the same "culture" as Chris Rock and do not support him. He uses the terms that black people have died fighting against. He makes a clear picture regarding how he feels, but I never heard you point out the fact that the same ebonics that you despise, he uses. And you need to READ WHAT YOU WROTE, and consider that every black person does not use the term "white trash". So what if other white people do, it is wrong no matter what color you are refering to. I know self proclaiming rednecks. They talk about going "muddin" and going to the redneck festival. I don't consider them trash. We see things differently but we have accepted that about each other. It wasn't always that way, but as long as America is a melting pot, that is just the way it is.
You did say something about a race of people, and that is the reason that this conversation has been going on since 2004.

Oh and these "red necks" I spoke about work with me at the State Attorney's Office. They are secretaries and attorneys.

"...consider that every black person does not use the term 'white trash'."

1. That's obvious.
2. So what?

You're right, I must not get it, because I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

None.

But if you have any inkling whatsoever of discussing the matter in terms which divide people into separate categories of class or character based upon skin color, you'll never achieve agreement with me. I won't even take you seriously at all. In fact, individuals grouping themselves together and limiting their behavior based upon such superficialities is what has led to the situation behind my post in the first place.

And, no, I didn't make any statements about any race of people, except insofar as specifying and/or implying that there is nothing about one's character that can be said about anyone based upon their race. Nothing. Your responses read to me as though you've projected your own preformed baggage upon my post, reading into it things that are not there.

I could care less about you ever taking me seriously. Seriously, that was never a worry. LOL
I just believe that if you are really going to make points using this ridiculous story about McDonald's than really:
You stated that "It should be noted, though, that I personally suspect that less than 50% of the black-skinned individuals in America are part of that culture. Those that don't take part in that culture are given a bad name in the same way that normal Muslims are given a bad reputation by Muslim extremists."
I doubt 50% of my race take part. I don't now if you didn't re-read what you wrote or just went to rambling. And you only pointed out the obvious, I have baggage, yes I do. When I here people make statistics about black people and could care less if they are correct, but because it sounds good, they utter these numbers out of pure ignorance.

@SABRINA: What you quoted says 100% the opposite of what you're saying. This...

"It should be noted, though, that I personally suspect that less than 50% of the black-skinned individuals in America are part of that culture. Those that don't take part in that culture are given a bad name in the same way that normal Muslims are given a bad reputation by Muslim extremists."

...translates to...

"None of this post can be related in any way to anyone's race." (Obviously it cannot say anything about race, because just as many [or more] people of that race behave differently.)

Which means that my previous statement was accurate: I didn't say anything about any RACE of people.

I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION, BECAUSE MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE RACE THING. WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY BLACK-SKINNED?

"Black skinned" is just what it says (similar to "blond haired" or "broken toothed").

I do not mean, and I will not say, "black". No one is "black". Nor is anyone "white". I am no more "white" because of the color of my skin than I am "1/2 inch" because of the width of my fingernails, nor "blue" because of the color of my eyes. People (not all people) use the term "black" as a veiled reference to a sub-culture, with the tacit implication that all people who have black skin must belong to it. How often, when you hear politicians use the term "black" or reference the "interests" of "blacks", do you recognize the intent to reference a culture? Anyone with black skin who chooses not to participate in that culture (meaning: anyone who chooses not identify himself or herself with his or her skin color) gets deemed an "Oreo" (or worse, an "Uncle Tom").

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4039

But there is no such thing as the "interests of blacks" (where "blacks" refers to the biological race) which are distinct from the interests of any other human beings. There exists great diversity and conflict of interests within populations of all skin colors, and any attempt to group peoples' interests according to skin color is just exactly what it seems to be: racism. Illogical, irrational, but extremely politically useful, racism. The "interests of blacks" can, and does, only exist when people group themselves together as a sub-culture on the basis of their race.

PLEASE SEND THAT IN TO THOSE WHO MAKE APPLICATIONS. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUT YOU ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT ONE SET OF PEOPLE. I DON'T CARE HOW YOU JUGGLE YOUR WORDS. WHEN APPLYING TO COLLEGE OR A JOB OR EVEN A HOUSE, THE TERM FOR THE BLACK SKINNED PEOPLE (WHOSE SKIN IS REALLY DIFFERENT COLORS OF BROWN)IS BLACK RACE.
I HAVE ENJOYED THESE DEBATES IF YOU WILL, BUT I FOUND THIS SITE AFTER GOOGLING THE BLACK REPUTATION FOR A SPEECH I HAVE TO GIVE THIS MORNING.
I AM GATHERING MY TOYS AND I DON'T WANT TO PLAY ANYMORE.

OH, AND IN MY SECOND POST, I WASN'T JUST ADDRESSING YOUR MCDONALD'S EXPERIENCE, I WAS ADDRESSING OTHERS ON THIS SITE, INCLUDING THE QUOTE YOU USED ABOUT THE MOTHER AND HER CHILD'S SPEECH.

I would like to first off say that I am a Black person who is the child of African immigrants who grew up in white suburbs, so that you understand where I am coming from. I personally do not understand "ebonics," and I have noticed that even when ebonics speakers are speaking normal English, they have a different accent, so that there really is such a thing as "sounding Black." But I take offense at you making this any different than sounding like a redneck or a country singer. Yes, these accents are clearly geographical, but so is "sounding Black." The vast majority of people who sound like this (which also includes whites and significant numbers of Hispanics) live in the inner-city, and those who live in white suburbs or other white suburbs who sound like them are either 1) trying to assimilate to what they perceive "most" black people as sounding like as a result of defensiveness of their right to Blackness, and this is the most commercially accessible model or 2) surrounded by Black family/church community members who shaped their early speech patterns. Moreover, a lot of the idiosyncracies of this inner-city way of talking share SOME characteristics with southern speech, which makes sense since the Black inner-city population moved from the South to the North only this century. So, though I think each individual has a responsibility to speak with correct grammatical structures (conjugate the word "to be," don't invent new nouns, etc) when speaking in a business or academic setting, certain ways of pronouncing things are just not going to disappear. I'm Canadian on top of everything else, and I am just always going to pronounce the word "sorry," in a certain way, and it's ridiculous for anyone to judge me for that. And if he really was following the basic rules of English, I really have to wonder how much is you not wanting to understand. Clearly, I don't know you, but you're not making much of an attempt to be sensitive here, and you're basically coming off as a condescending prick. No offense. I'm hoping that's just the bravado that the anonymity of Internet seems to instill in every blogger. :)

"...I take offense at you making this any different than sounding like a redneck or a country singer."

I didn't. You made that up. It's all in your own mind, projected by you upon my post. I did not address rednecks at all, nor country singers, nor people from Alpha Centauri 12. Nor grasshoppers, kitchen sinks, nor Pam cooking spray, for that matter.

I did reference "white trash redneck accents" in a response to someone else (who brought them up) in which case I responded, "Yes, yes they [white trash redneck accents] are just as bad in many cases." Would you care to explain, Abi, how my saying that makes them any different?

They aren't listenig Jeff... American black people are too quick to go on the defensive to hear what you are saying. One day they will travel to another country whre the people from a geographic are speak the same REGARDLESS of race. I repeat only in the US of A do people of different races speak differently when occupying the same area of the country. (because the "black" accent is an affectation)

"...(because the 'black' accent is an affectation)"

Precisely.

And, although I've said nothing about it before, it IS different from the redneck phenomenon: there are no special interest groups pushing to make "Redneckese" an official foreign language or protected cultural speech (as there is with Ebonics), nor does there exist special interest groups dedicated to preserving the "redneck culture". Rednecks do not have unelected political "leaders" (see "NAACP"), nor do they have lobbyists in Washington fighting for redneck culture. Everyone, even rednecks, recognize the redneck phenomenon as being a symptom of poor education and lack of drive (Jeff Foxworthy, redneck extraordinaire, describes "redneck" as being "a glorious lack of sophistication"). Employers are not afraid to refuse to hire people who speak like a redneck into public service positions, but refusing to hire people who say "aks" instead of "ask" makes them a target of the racism accusation. (Hell, just look at what has happened to me, here, in this thread! Would the same have occurred if I had posted about people who speak like a redneck?)

Speaking "Redneckese" is like speaking "Ebonics" in many ways. However, they are unalike in many ways, including the MOST IMPORTANT of ways: politically.

You posted "I pull into the drive-through and before I can get the car stopped I hear a voice, in a thick black accent, ask me for my order", followed by the bracketed paragraph about that "culture". Later in thread, you posted the following: "@Mark: What is so important about associating a culture with a color? Why not say "western culture"? Why *white* western culture?"
Please explain why these two are different (apart from the races cited).
You also posted "You've missed the point. And, no, I won't answer, "So what is the point?" It's too obvious", in response to Stine's comments. I'm having a hard time establishing your point as well. Is it race? Culture? Mcdonald's service? Or somthing deeper that I, and seemingly some others, must be missing?
Please explain for the slower folks, like me, because you come across in the post as person who has more compassion for chickens than for people.

You people think that if they say anything about one persons color then its racist against the whole race. You think that just one sly remark and the persons a racist. If I say something like this "Black peoples skin is different from white peoples skin in color tone". I must be a racist. Thats all I hear you guys say. Why its so bad to say stuff about black people and how its not bad to say anything about white people. Its like the time when a black person kept calling me nigger in highschool. No matter how many times I asked him to stop he kept on calling me it. I finally called him a nigger not knowing what it meant and got detention. Whats up with that? I'll tell you whats up with that. The one thing worse than being racist agaist black people is being racist agaist white people. EVERYBODY is racist against white people. Even white people themselves. Whenever somebody uses a racist remark against a white person they just shove it off. But when somebody uses a racist remark against a black person they bring a whole army to trample the person who said it. I ask you, Whats is up with THAT!

Hi brain fart. First of all, I would like thank you for showing how stupid you really are. You wanted a vegetable burger and the fine gentleman gave you the best of the best vegetables that one of your like can hope to encounter. You on the other hand wanted process hog slop, which I am convinced is what you deserved. Now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, let speak of the "black trash" that you spoke about. There is only one universal language and that is music, (I would know because my son plays the cello and the piano) however you may too stupid to adapt to your surroundings. To fix this handicap, I suggest that you crawl back under the rock from which you ascended from. The grass that is growing beside you under that rock is what one can call true vegetation. I'm sure you'll be happy.
P.S. spend a week in the hill of North Carolina and you will find white people speaking the most unusual, disgusting, and horrendous language that one can hear. E.G. hi yawl, imma fixin ta go doun yunda. When you've cleared all of that up, come back and see me. At that point, we can begin discussing again. Brain fart I rest my case.

^----I like that response. I always love the responses that tell us much more about the person responding than about subject the person intends to be addressing. My favorite line was this one:

"I would know because my son plays the cello and the piano...."

The 'speech problem' in America doesn't revolve around 'black people' alone. I have heard many people of different races speak in this form and it is an insult and the ultimate form of racism to say otherwise.

I'm actually writing a report on racism and I'm glad I came across this article , it's actually answered most of my questions.
Firstly I would like to state that I'm a native female African. born and educated there! But currently studying in Russia (which is by the way, very popular with racism ) I sometimes understand that factors like hostility, drug usage, theft and killings contribute to racism in the united states. but what I can't understand is that there are countries where black people live very peacefully but they are hated, insulted and beaten for no apparent reason let me give an example of the country am living in at the moment , there are a number of foreign students studying in Moscow, all from different parts of the world and of course, we blacks are considered more foreign because of the color of our skin , black people here don't carry guns or drive by shooting randomly ,they keep to themselves and their studies BUT seems some people can't just let that be, so since they can't find any valid reason for hating us they say we are simply not suppose to be in their country coz that's not were we belong doesn't matter what our business here is , my point is ITS ALL ABOUT THE COLOR OF THE SKIN .
Jeff you wrote that while you pulled into the drive-through , you heard a voice in "a thick black accent", ask you for your order ! I know there are some white boys who grew up in all black neighborhoods who are into rap music and think that accent is cool , now I looked at your situation this way what if the person who had served you that day was a white man (spoke like a black man and served you what that man served you ) would you have written this article ? or would you have simply brushed the incident off your mind ?, and from what I know the African- American accent originated way back in the years of slavery and the sole reason behind it was for the whites to not understand what they were talking about , its something they were proud of and continue to pretend being proud of. actually when I'm public. with my country mates I speak in my native language coz we need privacy , but that of course doesn't justify their not wanting to speak formally in some places, black people everywhere have had to put up with a lot of injustice, people don't become what they are from nowhere, something makes them that way. Its really sad but every time I'm in public(walking on the street or using public transport I've heard people hurl rude and stupid comments at me and its simply something i have learnt to ignore because I know not every one is a racist considering the fact that my roommates and neighbors are Russians and we are fine , I also know I'm a visitor in someone else's country so I can sometimes put up with nonsense, but if I was born in this country and it's the only place I can call home i just wonder what that would do to me psychologically. I would say the thing which irritates me most about hip -hop is that it promotes immorality and its becoming more and more popular by the day I would suggest that those people rapped about much more meaningful things maybe replace the word B****CH with a much more respective , word for someone they love and respect , Hah!! that's where the difference comes in with native African music which is the complete opposite of that .
In conclusion I would say don't try to force people into your society if they don't want , we all have choices we can be educated , learn to understand other people or simply close our eyes .
I know what it means to have to face racism every day in life but I also know that with hatred and revenge you can't solve anything, I hope there will come a day when people will not judge people by what they look like but by looking at what abilities they have and

I just learned that someone I know had the following experience (copy/pasting his words):

**************************************************
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269826,00.html

Reminds me of the summer before my 9th grade year. My mom took me to the local public high school to meet my would-be teachers. We walk into Ms. Washington's English class and she says, "Hi, I be's Ms. Washington, the ninfe grade English teacher."

My mom quickly replied, "Oh no you be's not!" and we walked out. The next day I was enrolled in Catholic High School.
**************************************************

Look, plan and simple you just don't like African Americans. I am a black women and i grew up in the low poverty projects (something your ignorance would allow you to call the ghetto only because you're as dumb as ebonics and don't know the true meaning of the word) and my family and i speak perfectly fine and have made straight A's all my life in enghlish and in my communication classes. I as well as my "black" friends and family we don't have any problems pronuncing our R's or S's. Maybe you need to get a life and stop stero typing cause all African Americans don't speak ebonics.

Wow! This is a very deep debate & disturbing!

@b07: 1) I know what a "ghetto" is and what it isn't, the origins of the word, and that it has nothing to do with poverty. 2) You're correct, I don't like "African-Americans". Neither, however, do I like "Irish-Americans", "Italian-Americans", "Mexican-Americans", "Greek-Americans"...I dislike [any-hyphenate]-Americans. No matter where a person comes from, whether a natural born American or a naturalized American, whether a person's heritage is African, English, whatever, they ought to be Americans. We shouldn't be looking at one another and separating ourselves from one another into factions according to unchosen happenstance, such as skin color and heritage.

ok you didn't answer my questions?? and all those errors are technical, so instead of replying with cheap useless comparisons , you should have simply answered the questions. you are simply a sadist who has notthing better to do but write about other people's imperfect lives, you have absolutely no idea what some people have gone through to get where they are .so don't you dare judge any person of colour for being who they are coz u don't know what its like to be be black ... i won't waste my precious time writing to some cheap skate like u coz you r probably an empty head anyway ... so if i have to write a long text and paste it, i would do it!again and it doesn't matter if some words, end up unseen, as long as it hits home.

@nzali:

Me: "Do I get irritated? Far from it...instead my most common emotion is compassion for a person who is struggling, in a way that I've never had to struggle, to fit in and to survive, live, and be secure financially."

You: "you are simply a sadist"

I'm sorry that you consider compassion to be sadistic. That's pretty bad, nzali.

You: "so don't you dare judge any person of colour for being who they are coz u don't know what its like to be be..."

Ah, I see, so I can't judge child molesters because I don't know what it's like to be one. That's just great. You're a very bright girl, nzali. I can't judge Nazis, or murderers, or Democrats, or Popes, or women, or politicians, or crooks or saints or...blacks...because I've never been any of them. Lovely.

I'll judge everyone, thank you very much. And as a human being, I'll support for everyone else not only the right to judge everyone else, but in addition I'll assert that it's everyone's RESPONSIBILITY to do so. And I find your statement about not judging "blacks" to be extremely offensive and insulting to "blacks"; the idea that "blacks" should be immune from judgment on the basis that they are "black", is a pronouncement that should be as offensive and repugnant as any other racist statement that you could've made about "blacks".

And, for the record, I'm not "white". I have "white" skin (sort of). I also have blue eyes, but having blue eyes doesn't make me "blue". The width of my middle fingernail is about 1/2 inch, but that doesn't determine who I am any more than the color of my skin or the color of my eyes. If you are segregating yourself - or others - on the basis of skin color, then you are a RACIST, and there is no more excuse for your political opinion than there is for a KKK racist.

Congratulations - now you've been judged too.

hmmm
"I pull up the first window and i see the guy. i realize that l'm suprised by his appearance, i expected to see some idiot standing there glorifying " black- trash culture"

this statement speaks for its self, i have nothing more to say on just how prejudiced you were and you probably still are.

But let me elucidate something here , I'm for truth and justice, and all law breakers should be judged accordingly but many are times when black people are expected to act in a certain way just because they are black,and compared to other races ,we have to prove ourselves to society, in almost evrything , you talk of the people of color not wanting to blend in the western way of life, well some of them do and when they do the are expected to become stereotypes, doesn't matter how long they try to prove their individuality, well anyway let me just go straight to the point all people are different and thats a fact, i don't know why some people can't get that into their heads ,

we all have the right to live the way we want and be what we want , and hell... talk the way we want, let the muslim women cover their faces and bodies , as for the homos well if they are happy to be what they are, society should leave them alone!!!!! no one has the right to criticize someone's choosen way of life as long they do no harm to socity . i speak three international languages and am proud to say i speak them all well ,l'm well educated atleast partly but everytime i look for work based on my speaciality of study i won't even be given a chance, i come across stupied people every now and then who call me all sorts of names,and i feel sorry for them, they might want to get to me and make me feel insecure , but that will never happen in a million years if they are ingnorant and they find my color offensive i would say its something they have to deal with, and my personality didn't come about because i try to to blend into another culture ... far from it i was simply brought to live a moral and meaninful life,
lastly lets not go about insulting each others intellectual capabilities coz u have no idea whom u are argueing with!!!
you could say you are compassionate and i believe you ,i really do ... just as i believe george bush to be a very compassionate man indeed .the bottom line is i just don't care !moreover "the article" u wrote here speaks more about your "compassionate nature jeff"
oh and as far as you calling me a racist is concerned i can say i would gladly add you last on my empty hot *RACIST*list.

@nzali
Please read my December 30th post.
It's the stupid affectation that Jeff is writing about. As an "African" you wouldn't understand it until you were exposed to it. I have recently travelled to Australia and guess what. Blacks and Whites have the SAME accent.
oh and @B07 how many black women are you?

"Dat'll be two-turteen at da fust windoe."

Oh god that was my good laugh for the day

you can't change someone's accent! Why should go out of there way to waste the extra effort of trying to meet the standards of other

i know its screwed up when blacks get special privileges or rights because they are racial minorities, and an insult to a negro is not just a insult but automatically a racial profilization . not to mention there privilidges in society "if you dont give one a job your going to have a lawsuit on your hands.

wow!

for nearly 3 years now this has been festering and no one ever noticed that Jeff did not state that the person serving him at McSwill had any specific skin color at all.

He spoke about the speech and the glorification of poor speech. I grew up in an area where people are known to destroy the English language every time they open their mouths. I intentionally fought the accent starting at age 12 when on a trip to a university I was laughed at by strangers who were clearly more educated than anyone I knew simply because they made it to that level of education. To this day you will not be able to tell where I am from or what I look like in any fashion when you speak to me on the phone.

That is the way I like it. This is not about race it is about owning up to your success and creating your own dignity such that you will be beyond reproach in society.

I would rather be accepted in business and drive my exotic car home to my mansion everyday than be accepted by the fellow thugs in an inner-city slum.

@ thug
you are right but its clear the person he was talking about was black, jeff is right, about the accents. but my point is if people choose to speak dress or talk in a certain way let them be, it's their choice mind you am not saying its right,but you can't force people to change their ways of life IF THEY DON'T WANT TO !!!

I agree with you on many points, Jeff. Many black people are unfortunately so caught up in being seen as "cool" and "down", and "keeping it real", that they've managed to glorigy all types of negative behaviors & habits, poor grammar and ill spoken English included. I honestly don't know why so many strive to be stupid instead of elevating themselves, given the state that the black race is in worldwide today. I don't think you're racist for pointing something out that many wonder about but are afraid to ask. Not at all.
I think that unless you have been kept from school altogether, there is no reason that you should be unable to speak your own language correctly. You learn just about all the English you need to communicate intelligently and properly in grade school, pretty much. To ignore those teachings and instead choose to mangle the language you're being taught is just that-- a choice. Unfortunately, it's a choice that many young black (and latino & white) kids make trying to be cool and down with their friends, and also to be like the rappers and "gangsta" celebrities on BET and MTV. If you don't break out of that within some time, that actually BECOMES the way you speak for good, unless you recorrect yourself.

For example, I went through a phase like that when I was a teenager, trying to sound tough and cool. I was running with some friends that talked all hard and street, and I started trying to emulate them, trying to be down.
One day when my father was home, I spoke to him in my new (and diligently practiced) dialect and he stopped me cold. "Since when do you talk like THAT??" He looked at me like I'd gone mad. "You won't be talking like that in THIS house, walking around sounding like some dummy! We didn't raise a dummy! You'd better straighten that out right NOW, or your ass will NEVER go back outside again!!"
Well...that was a bit of a wake up call for me! I will admit that at first, I rebelled a little, still talking "hard and cool" around my friends, but I soon realized that I really wasn't being myself, and got over it. Those that were really my friends accepted it and life went on.
One thing I can tell you about is the negative peer pressure you recieve in some black neighborhoods to not speak proper English. It happens all the time. I got picked on in junior high and high school for being smart. I had to be strong and fight through that. I will admit that having my father sternly overseeing my education helped to keep me on the right path. He was the one who signed my report cards! But also, I had developed a certain pride in being smart and getting good grades. I knew that I could step into any room, sit at any table and hold my own as an intelligent, young, black woman. Everyone saw that in me, like it or not, and responded to it, good or bad. I learned to INSIST on being myself, no matter what someone else said.

All my life, I've met all ages of black people who speak broken, f*cked up English and think it's cute. I know that many of them have fallen prey to that same peer pressure I went thru, and now also have the added influence by rap and hip hop media to speak ridiculously because it's "jiggy".
And nowadays we have plenty of positive, intelligent black role models for everyone to see, and they all speak articulately and intelligently....just like me. You can choose to follow and be inspired by them instead of some street gangsta image.

News flash, my black people. It's not cute. It's not "down". And most importantly, sounding like a dumb ass that can't speak your own home born language correctly is NOT BLACK. It's just stupid. Get a grip and seek better for yourself!

I undersand what you are saying! I dont under stand why people have left comments saying you are a racist! Its okay for blacks and mexicans and others to say how they feel about white people but when we have an opinon we are called "white trash, red neck or kkk or racist"! we are suposed to keep our mouths shut and and take it up the tail pipe! Where I live whites are the minority! And you have to speak spanish in order to get most jobs now a days. We have a large population of black people as well I dont have problems with most , but it is scary to walk around at night or day because they dont like us out here.

They probably did it because you are white.

I found the original article fun to read and so true of many of the services that we now have to deal with---from the people at take-out windows----to the people that help us each day over the phone with tech information or taking purchase orders.

I liked the comments of "SimplyGrinning" (above) and thought that covered the issue correctly. However, having not had a chance to read every comment, and risking the chance that it may already have been mentioned, I would still like to add a thought of my own.

I don't believe that the article was started in a racial context, but it certainly has bloomed into one. One needs to step back and take a look at the WHOLE picture---and NOT from a racial point of view. I would think that any service job that requires a verbal communication should start with at least one person being the best skilled that they can be. As a company, you never know who your customers are going to be or how badly they may destroy the English language on their own. You have no control over that though. Imagine both the customer AND service provider having their own different warped versions of what English should be. What a nightmare that could become. So again, isn't it up to a place like McDonalds to make sure that the person at the order window possesses the best skills possible for not only understanding and reciting English, but also for their manners and friendliness and ability it make you feel that your business is appreciated---even if it is ONLY a McDonalds?

I'm sure that the pay is no better working the window then flipping burgers in the back. So put that guy in the back---and bring someone forward that can speak "normal" English. Accepting someone working the window that has poor speaking skills is no different than accepting someone flipping burgers that drops every other one on the floor. Do you think McDonalds would accept a 50% loss of burgers to the floor and write it off as--"Oh, it's just a culture thing. We accept that they have a little more trouble with coordination than other people might" You KNOW they wouldn't. Well then in the same perspective they shouldn't allow someone at a window that didn't offer the best skills possible for that position. (Hmmmm---perhaps he was the best. Now that would be a sad thought.)

English is still the root language that America was founded on. I don't care how many ethnic versions of it are in the so called "melting pot" that everyone is talking about. If you took a course on the English language I don't believe that you would also be taught all of the slang versions that have developed over the years. English is ENGLISH!! We need to hold onto English as the root ---and get as many people as possible to grow up learning it--or returning to it if they didn't first learn it---or learn it now, if they are coming from some other place. If we accept a spin-off of English as OK--then why might it too become a root. Then where will we go from there? Soon there will be spin-offs of spin-offs of spin-offs until we are speaking some sort of alien pig latten garbage that only a handful of people understand.

Again---get that guy OUT of the window!!!

New York Diva!
Absolutely right on the money!

Question people. weren't we talking about McDonalds? how did we get on the subject of black and white (can you believe it 300 years later and we still don't get along)when we should be over it by now. Whoever posted this (i swear i really don't know, i didn't even bother) has his or her own opinions and we must respect them. And if ya'll DARE yel;l back at me i'm gonna find a way to track ya'll down and make ya'll suffer, believe me, me and my friends enjoy making the lifes of those we hate miserable. So please respect what i have said and take it into consideration (im impressed for my age and im still a teen, i have alot more since than you guys do. And for thse who think black people are dumb. I laugh, by 2050 we are going to be ruling united states. Ja Ne. By the way that means see ya. Hopefully i don't)

I agree with you there is no reason what so ever that black kids have demeaned themselves. And then we go around saying we are not getting the respect we deserve. What respect? We don't give it to ourselves, walking around trying to be cool, selling crack off the street, getting into trouble, and going to jail, no forgive me, Prison. Bet they won't think it is cool when they go get raped up in there. I'm lucky that my family is raising me with sense. I know what I want to do, and I am working hard to get there, I have six more years until i go to college but I sure am working hard. I am a proud black teenage female who personally fonds it a shame to see people of my age group acting the way they are. But i think we can get better. And for the love of God and all that is good. Can we get off the race and religion thing?! it is tiring hearing people hate on the muslims (got several friends who are muslims) and the jewish (friends to) and the buddhist and hindus (yep them to) i got all sorts of friends of different religions and races and it does not cause problams for us so why can't anybody else get along? people think we don't see things at our "young, tender, confused " stage. I once again laugh at that. That is a bunch of forgive my language bullshit! (excuse me i need to go cool off, so like i said the last time, think about what i said ......erm....wrote)

Hey People!!!!Over Here!!!!Many of you made some good points about racism...BUT...It was how you interpreted the article! and not how I interpretted it!!! We all interpretted it in different ways. I didn't think it had much to do with racism and "whites" and "blacks" at all. It was about communication and how other than try to correct things that are not necessarily wrong with a person and how a person talks and how a person acts that person or Persons "glorifies" in their shortcomings instead of trying to overcome it and be better for it!(well that's how I saw it.)

"News flash, my black people. It's not cute. It's not "down". And most importantly, sounding like a dumb ass that can't speak your own home born language correctly is NOT BLACK. It's just stupid. Get a grip and seek better for yourself!" this is what New York Diva said and she obviously got the point of the article and I commend her and all those others who weren't so quick to judge Jeff as a racist instead of seeing the big picture.

It's utterly pathetic how this turned into a racial debate when the article had nothing to do with race, but with the way people butcher the English Language and blame it on oppression. Just like Doc said "…(because the 'black' accent is an affectation)"no matter what color your skin is, I think, that the majority of the time you won't be judge by your skin color but by how you present yourself, the company you keep, the way you communicate and how you deal with your shortcomings(which was what the article was really about)!! But for some strange reason some people in the so called "black community" which I'm not quite sure where this so-called community is located, chose to blast their "rap" (which is at times very degrading to women),stand on the corner looking like a drug deal is about to go down, speak, not just improperly but also incoherently, dress with pants 300 times too big that for some reason or another hang from their ankles…and then after doing all of this they blame the "white man" for keeping them down, when infact they just don't want to come up!

I really don't understand how some of you could say that he(Jeff) is a racist when, as thug stated, Jeff never mentioned the color of the guy's skin…BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MATTER!!!!... Those of you who assumed he was a "black" guy are the racists!!!! I'm actually not quite sure how the assumption that the guy was black ever came to be. @nzali: I don't think it's clear that the person at the window was black. It's clear, because Jeff stated it, that the person at the window spoke in an "black-accent" that is considered as "cool" when infact I find it sad. I agree with you about what you said which is...

"my point is if people choose to speak dress or talk in a certain way let them be, it's their choice mind you, [I] am not saying its right, but you can't force people to change their ways of life IF THEY DON'T WANT TO !!!"

But I didn't see him as forcing people the change their ways of life. He's, in my opinion, trying to make a point of what has become of the English language and what has become of the "black" "african american" "whatever" culture and how It seems, to me, that they think that people, preferably "white people," owe them something because of their "suffering"!!! However, they don't seem to understand that their ancestors were the ones who suffered not them. Is it Jeff's fault that the guy at the window chose to speak like that? Uh…erm….NO!!

I've touched on a number of subjects but what I'm trying to say has already been said for me by NewYorkDiva :
"News flash, my black people. It's not cute. It's not "down". And most importantly, sounding like a dumb ass that can't speak your own home born language correctly is NOT BLACK. It's just stupid. Get a grip and seek better for yourself!"

You make me laugh. For someone who would seemingly be totally against a bias or prejudice statement, you sure make a lot of them. First off, not supporting "that cruel industry?" Do you even know what your talking about? Let me guess, you saw a bunch of liberal assholes talking on the internet about how cruel farmers are. Whatever. You want to see cruelty? Go to a village in South America and watch them sacrifice a small child to their God just so they can have chickens to eat. I have no problem with a vegetarian, and I can understand your dislike of a McDonald's meat patty. But you are nothing more than a hypocrite. Compassion? This from someone who uses words like 'trashy' and 'stupid.' Stick your form of compassion right up your ass. I work at McDonald's. Most of the people I work with either picked up the job because they're a grandmother with nothing left to do or they're a kid working their way through college. You want to hear the funniest part about all of this? You should hear us talk about you. The people who come through the drive-thru and whisper or yell... don't know how to answer if they'd like crispy or grilled chicken on their salad, asking for prices of things that are right in front of them. Point is, just because you have a bug up your ass about ONE person doesn't mean you have to stereotype an entire culture. Oh, and just a sidenote, most McDonald's don't have a 'Veggie Burger...' we simply don't put meat on whatever it is that you order.

Next order of business. Why should anyone in America have to blend? That's why we're all here. The Puritans didn't blend when they first came over. Hell no! They just shoved anyone in their way off to the Pacific and made camp. Unless you're Native, you're somewhere in a line of immigrants. English isn't even the original language of this country... How many of you can speak Ho-Chunk or Pottawatomie? That's what I thought. Is it Jeff's fault that the guy at the window spoke like that? No. Is it Jeff's fault that he chose to be a complete dick about it and stereotype McDonald's based on one guy? Yes. It is. I'm not talking about black or white here... my point in this entire comment (if it's unclear; which is more than likely the case [I ramble a lot]) is that America is a free place... which is why it's so wonderful. But it's getting worse instead of better. People now aren't supposed to be 'racist' and have biases about skin color. So they find other things... Jobs, neighborhoods, levels of education, to base their prejudice on. Maybe that guy had a serious speech impediment and couldn't do anything about it. Maybe he was an orphan who was trying to educate himself (most people need a job to do that). Or maybe he was just a dickhead. Who knows? But maybe next time you'll think before you decide to judge every person who works in fast food.

u kno wut u cant discriminate on a person just because u dont like da way dey talk....look i type like dat but u know wut im WHITE. so stop being sooo damn shallow. derz no way dat u act black or act white, u act who you are, datz it, and i wuz raised up around a lot of black ppl and i luv black ppl, i have a black bf and my mom loves him sooo i think itz pretty clear dat u r just a racist bitch, who has no clue wut da hell ur talkin about. 4 example say dat ur wife ALL OF A SUDDEN turned black, wuld u automatically stop luving her, cuz dat iz NOT LOVE! i cant beleive u can be sooo idiotic. u really need help.

^----If someone could translate that into English for me, I'd be ever so grateful.

I think that was "Buckwild" From Flavor of Love 2

Wow - you really pushed some buttons here.

I'd first like to say that perhaps if you'd used the term "urban accent", you might have gotten a lot less flack. That's the funny thing about PC speech - you can say something in a "less offensive" way, but it still means the same thing - and people know it.

Secondly, I agree basically with your idea that there are some forms of speech that are irritating and make the speaker come across as 1) lazy 2) ignorant and ill-educated or 3) just plain stupid. Or maybe a combination of the above. It may not be fair, but it is the case. Some accents have that baggage attached. I personally find some versions of the US Southern accent to be that way.

You seem to have offended a number of people who aren't too bright or educated themselves. They are unable to read your piece in a critical way (I said critical, not criticizing - subtle difference) and try to understand what you are saying, even if they feel some of it is not worded in a way they find palatable.

I can't stand it when people play the victim card: I can't get ahead / be successful / be happy because I'm black / white / latino / short / tall / went to a public school / dress differently etc. What that really says is: I'm not responsible for my own life, I'm a victim of society, therefore I'm just going to sit here and do nothing.

Other people do not define you and if you sit around moaning about how other people are racist or elitist or whatever and don't like you because of the above-named factors, then you are wasting precious energy that could be spent improving yourself, enjoying your life and being happy. (and when I say improving yourself, I mean that no one is perfect but we should strive to be so, and therefore we all require some efforts to improve ourselves and our characters in some way)

The sad truth is people with horrible speech need to do something to change it and, yes, fit in with the mainstream culture. It is people from the mainstream culture who primarily do the hiring and firing. If you cannot speak like a semi-educated person then no one will take you seriously, no one will hire you for really important well-paying jobs. True fact. End of story. (Can I also add - people who can't write well or spell correctly too?)

So stop moaning that Jeff is racist and try to grasp the basics of what he has said here, even if you don't quite like the way in which he has phrased it. If you think he is a racist - let me tell you - you haven't really met a true racist - they are REALLY vile ignorant evil people.

so.... if speaking/writing english properly and having a clean and possibly professional appearance are two of the major factors involved in getting and keeping a decent job... those of any race who refuse to adhere to these blatantly obvious stipulations for any reason are probably going to end up with low paying jobs, or manual labor jobs, if any. personally, i think the solution is to pimp some hoes and sling some rock instead [maybe boost some stereos, who knows], and then write songs about how cool my lifestyle is...get rich or die trying. it will certainly cause my peers to idolize me, and behave in the same fashion. some people simply prefer ignorance and violence. plus, you can make a lot of money selling crack.

oh, i forgot to mention another fun part of...lets call it 'urban hiphop culture', is shit talking and/or drive-by shootings/jumpings of people caught 'disrespectin' [i.e. having a different or articulate opinion] or simply wearing the wrong clothes/colors in the wrong part of town. im sorry, maybe im racist or equally ignorant, or whatever, but anyone who supports this culture or thinks its cool is f--king retarded. if anyone think these things i've mentioned are not integral CORE components to this particular 'culture' then you need to buy some hiphop cds [besides will smith] or interview some real inner city thugs, and see if they do not confirm this. plenty of them out there, white, black, hispanic. go ahead, ask them. i'll wait. jeff's right about the willfull ignorance issue, but lets not forget the bigger issues of violence and substance abuse that go hand in hand with it.

better to go hungry than to patronize mcdonalds. its a low class outfit, usually employing people who are grim and who hate their lives.

of course its tough dealing with endless lines of customers, but we all have stress in our jobs.

that whole corporation with its stupid slogans and tacky ambience just sucks. i wish theyd die.

What does McDonald's add to their "beef" that makes it taste so horrible? Anyone know?

I'm 62 years old and was raised in a mixed neighborhood, attended school that was 60% black and realized a long time ago black people have their own language and culture. It didn't affect the way I talk or dress.

Only in America Jerry...Only in America.

I think the issue here is that ghetto culture is often portrayed as "black culture," and used as an identity. Those who are a part of ghetto culture don't want to play by the rules. So they label the r