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June 25, 2005

EVEN LIMEYS ARE OUTRAGED

I found the following letter, written to Mark Steyn, at SteynOnline.com (I've decided not to link directly to the page it is on, because it's a dynamic page; i.e., it's content changes almost daily). We saw a poll in this last week that showed that the leftist disinformation campaign has had negligible effects on the judgments of people at home about Guantanamo. Now we have some indication that it's not been entirely successful across the ocean, either. It's nice to see that, although they don't get the same kind of press as the much louder people of the anti-Bush freakshow, there are people over there who are as sober as those here at home who are underrepresented in the media:

EVEN LIMEYS ARE OUTRAGED
Congratulations on your article in the Chicago Sun Times about the disgraceful comments of Senators Durbin and Leahy re Guantanamo. I am British but this sort of thing makes even my weak-kneed liberal limey blood boil.

I presume these men (they don't fit my definition of gentlemen) think they are being clever and liberal and will be applauded for their vision and understanding by hordes of admirers around the world . Sadly, they might well be right about the applause, but they are morally repugnant.

I believe that true evil comes from looking at a person as having no more value than an animal that can be petted or slaughtered as mood or need dictates. I presume that was how Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and the other barbarians of history could carry out their massacres. To suggest that President Bush and his advisers and the members of the United States military are in any way comparable almost defies belief. Indeed, in his willingness to view abominations such as the Holocaust as being in some way equal to the treatment of the Guantanamo detainees Senator Durbin could be said to be near that path himself. When millions of innocent dead from the recent past are now used as a political tool to attack a President I wonder what moral sense, if any, the Senator has.

Senator Leahy was not quite as egregious in his offensiveness, but his suggestion that the United States was admired before Guantanamo was established was either deluded or dishonest. A large part of the "elite" class from the United States and around the world never have liked and never will like the United States when it does not conform to their assumption of entitlement to treat whole nations as playthings or social experiments. When an American President stands up and says that things are going to have to change in the world and has the courage to back his words with action those people are going to react with fury and hatred. I would wager good money that most of the peoples of the world who have any understanding of the United States are not her enemies if given a choice by their political and religious leaders. But the people in his own country and outside whom Senator Leahy seems to be trying to impress are only ever going to approve of a quiescent United States that lets them have their way unchecked. That was the path that led to the massacres in Rwanda on the sainted President Clinton's watch. Yet I see that he also is now climbing on the Guantanamo bandwagon. If this, plus Howard Dean, is Democratic leadership, that party is heading for political oblivion.

I am not the greatest admirer of President Bush but I judge politicians by their enemies, and on that measure I think the President must be getting a lot of things right. Senators Durbin and Leahy should be ashamed of themselves. Since they almost certainly won't be, well done to you for saying what needed to be said.

Ian Lewis
Northampton, England

I rather like one of the points made by Mark in the article mentioned above:

Last Tuesday, Senator Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, quoted a report of U.S. "atrocities" at Guantanamo and then added:

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings."

Er, well, your average low-wattage senator might. But I wouldn't. The "atrocities" he enumerated -- "Not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room" -- are not characteristic of the Nazis, the Soviets or Pol Pot, and, at the end, the body count in Gitmo was a lot lower. That's to say, it was zero, which would have been counted a poor day's work in Auschwitz or Siberia or the killing fields of Cambodia.

I'm guessing that Mark realizes, though was too polite to point out, that "low wattage" is not an attribute only of some senators. Or, perhaps, because it was a column in an American newspaper, and he'd seen the poll also mentioned above, he decided that the low wattage contingent of America's regular voting population was too inconsiderable to mention. Let's hope it is overseas, as well.

Posted by Jeff at June 25, 2005 08:40 PM

Comments

I'm actually enjoying the London bombings. As far as I'm concerned, the only good limey is a dead limey. I've hated these uppity snobbish bastards ever since they were in Northern Ireland.

Holding people without trials was one of the reasons we rebelled against the British. America is doing the very same thing in Gitmo.

I suppose that Americans are just too stupid to remember their history.

Warmongering countries that wage immoral, illegal and preemptive wars deserve terrorism. England just got their comeuppance.

As a Vietnam Vet, I am ashamed of my countries actions in Iraq. Once again, America is too stupid to remember our last unjustified immoral war. At least this time our troops are neo-con mercenaries and not drafted civilians..............yet anyway.

Oh I'm sure that many of your readers would love to tell me...."Love it or leave it". How about...."change it or lose it"? I'm not opposed to another American revolution. BRING IT ON!!! I live in the Bible belt and would enjoy killing Christian Fundamentalists as much as Neo-Cons love killing Muslim Fundamentalists.

A 57-year-old American Veteran.

Posted by: Kill Blair at July 26, 2005 03:49 PM


Well, if anyone ever wondered what kind of person could be against the Iraq war, it would seem that we just got a glimpse into one of their souls - and it ain't pretty. When people write stuff like that, I find it easier and easier to believe that John Kerry wasn't the only soldier in Vietnam to commit war attrocities.

Posted by: Jeff at July 26, 2005 04:55 PM


Yes Jeff, you Neo-Cons just love trashing our decorated Vietnam War Vets. Bush did it with both John McCain and John Kerry. I wouldn't mind it so much if Bush had actually served his country instead of going AWOL during Vietnam.

Bush hates the military.

He cuts combat pay.
He forces wounded soldiers to pay for their hospital meals.
He cuts funding for our Veterans Hospitals.
He forces our troops to stay in Iraq even after their tour of duty ends.
He doesn't even go to our soldiers funerals.
He doesn't even allow America to see their bodies coming home.

Nixon treated our troops better.

Show me how brave you are ..... INLIST. Go kill a Muslim for Christ. If you don't have the guts to do that, you can always torture them in Abu Grab.

But you won't. Neo-Cons are good at getting other people to die for them.

Posted by: Kill Blair at July 26, 2005 05:47 PM


1) I would argue that it is you who has trashed Vietnam vets with your own example, if indeed you actually are one; if you're not really one, then you've trashed them by the portrayal of one which you made above. It stands on its own without any help from me.

2) The "Your opinions, judgments, and arguments are without merit unless you, yourself, enlist," argument is invalid, and it is weak of a person to resort to it.

3) "Christ" lived 2000 years ago, if he ever lived at all. Somehow, I just don't think he's around to notice if anyone kills a Muslim.

4) The overwhelming vast majority of those enlisted are conservative. So much for them "having others" do their dying for them.

Posted by: Jeff at July 26, 2005 06:50 PM


(1)I assure you that I am indeed Vietnam Era Vet. I have also worked for the government for 10 years after 5 years in the military. You are the one who belittled John Kerry's service record by saying that he participated in atrocities. That's one thing you and Bush have in common.

(2)Your opinions, judgments and arguments do indeed have merit. The merits of a person who doesn't know a damn thing about war. If you truly believe in Bushs Holy war....enlist and join in the carnage. Be a hero. Then I might respect you opinion more. I'm not impressed by chicken hawks.

(3)I agree. Christ and Mohammad are both figments of mans imagination. I fall along the lines of Thomas Jefferson. I am a Deist. However, you are naive to believe that this war has nothing to do with religion. For fundamentalist Christians, this is a holy war, a crusade to kill Muslims. Terror is just Bushs excuse.

(4)Since the overwhelming vast majority of those enlisted in this war are conservatives, pardon me not crying over 1800 dead Neo-Cons volunteers. Besides, I don't call being blown up by a roadside bomb.....fighting. Our Troops are simply being assassinated one by one. Iraq will fail because Islam and democracy do not mix. America is too stupid to understand this.

It takes 8-10 weeks to train an American soldier to fight. It's been two years since we started training Iraqis to defend their country. Are they just stupid or do they not give a damn about democracy. I think it's the latter. Democracy is earned....not given away.

Bush says we will be in Iraq for at least five more years. At the current rate, this would mean that by the year 2010 there will be 7,000 dead Americans and at a cost to the United States of 800 Billion Dollars.

Congratulations. Bush will have killed more Americans than Bin Laden.

And you wonder why I hate Bush. He is ruining America not saving it.

Posted by: Kill Blair at July 26, 2005 08:57 PM


Wow, your site blows and you're an idiot.I agree with the 57 year-old American Veteran, you need to go enlist and die for Halliburton.

Posted by: xJlM at October 5, 2005 12:25 PM


oi 57 year old american veteran dick head
how would you like it if i said i enjoyed seeing the twin towers go down you would not like it would it but i guess us brits dont speak or think shit like that you need to get a life big time you old git i have never heard such shit you may like a dead limey well how bout a yank you make me sick just rember how many poor people died in the twin towers and how many died in london bombing and you say shit like that i hope nobody go to you when your dead because you are a bastard

Posted by: vickisticki limey at May 25, 2007 06:49 PM


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